Welcome to Gaia! ::

Who runs the goverment? Humans, right? Basiclly, goverment is 15 percent human, and 82 percent paper work (A rough estimate, but I belive you get the general Idea.) If what you say is true, then goverment should not have rights either. Going by your theory, we should be run by god directly, right? From what you say, h's the only with the power and authority to make descions on our behalf.

It's a good thing he left behind the bible, or we would be s**t out of luck

I have to disagree. Not about the inherent rights, but about how the government is "kind" out of mercy. Now, its true that the government can quite easily be incredibly strict and maintain power for a long time, but eventually, people'll get pissed and suddenly its a massive revolution. In other words, the government is kind out of self-preservation. Or, the government is intricate with the people, like it is in the U.S., and the government is kind to the people because it is the people. Know what I mean?

I think they have about as much inherent rights as other animals and plants do. : )
That being said, I do think that we should have rights.
But hey, if the UN can do something so that global rights improve, I'm alright with it. (If.)

I totally disagree about the government being kind enough to let us live here though.
It's not like we were refugees in need of shelter and the country took us in. Maybe our ancestors, I don't know, but certainly not me.
We were born here, we weren't given a choice. And if we don't like something we just have to sit down and shut up because we live in AMERICA, and if you don't agree with something you're UN-AMERICAN and therefore a terrorist!
/tangent

But anyhow, if it was my choice I'd leave. I probably will when I finish school.

Well, perhaps 1984 was a drastic example..But I would be more of a sheep then blindly proud.
I'd probobly join your revolution, since at a personal level I would hate to see a hostile oppressive dictatorship, but I try not to think of how the people would feel.

Human rights are allowed or disallowed by governments, but the rights themselves are imagined and sought after by people. But do people in a "state of nature" all desire any consistent set of human rights? Or are those "rights" merely constructed by cultures, and therefore aren't natural or inherent in individuals? Hmm... I do not know.



Do you support a 1984 government only with respect to its nationalistic propogandizing, or do you also support its anti-individual communist ideology?
Or do you support any government in theory because you subscribe to a Hobbesian social contract theory?

You mentioned later that you would resist a government like the one in 1984. If you support its ideology, why would you resist?

Personally, I'm opposed to Utopian models of government. I read books like 1984 and Brave New World as good arguments against absolute, social-engineering governments. And I'm opposed to Hobbesian social contract theory because it doesn't leave any room for improving a bad government. If a perfect government existed (it would probably have to be omniscient--a god or something equally imaginary), then we should all fall in line and blindly support its every law and action. In the real world, I say support the good laws and try to change the bad ones. Luckily we can do that in the U.S. without having to overthrow the whole government.

There are some great arguments out there for social engineering and social contract. It all reminds me of Nazi rationale, though. It's definitely an ends-justify-the-means way of looking at things. All I can think of are the billions of 20th century genocide deaths. What ends could justify those means? Should anyone ever support a government that implements genocide? (By saying that you don't care what direction your country goes in, you seem to be in theory supporting actions like genocide if your country decides to perform them. I apologize for making this assumption if this is not what you meant.)