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 Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:51 pm
Maybe it's just me but, why do people of the Judaic faith get really upset when you mention Jesus as the Christ?
anybody know go ahead and explain it to me
If you are a Jew and wish to explain this to me do so in a non hostile manner please, I am not in the mood to tolerate your hyper intelligent remarks or comments about me or the Judeo Christian faith.
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:03 pm
I don't. I DO get upset when people say an interpretation of the Bible that places Jesus as the Messiah (which is the meaning of the Greek word Christ) as a Jewish interpretation, because they aren't. I get upset because they are making mistakes with the interpretation, and I tend not to get upset unless they persistently refuse to believe it's a Christian, rather than a Jewish interpretation.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:29 am
As a Jew, I don't get upset when Christians refer to Jesus as Christ. That's what it means to be a Christian, that you believe that. However, when a non-Jew presumes to tell me what a Jewish belief or doctrine is (and gets it wrong), or when a person who can't read Hebrew tells me what the Hebrew Bible says (and gets it wrong), I feel they need to step back, go learn something, and then come back when they know what they're talking about. The Messiah is a person whom Jewish texts describe and define. We know what he is: a man descended from the physical, paternal lineage of King David. We know what he will do: draw all Jews back to the land of Israel (including those of the lost ten tribes), make Jews sovereign over the entirety of the Biblically-defined territory of Israel, establish the kingly line on the political throne of Israel, inspire in all Jews a desire to serve God by living the Biblical laws, cause the Temple to be rebuilt in its God-defined location, cause the cessation of hostilities against the Jewish people, and assist all non-Jews to observe the seven Noachide laws, thus establishing a format for a peaceful world. We know that these things will happen during the lifetime of the Messiah (the annointed king of Davidic lineage), not afterward and not during a second lifetime. We know that these things have not yet been done. Though there have been a few individuals who did fulfill some of the qualifications for who could become the Messiah, they died before they could fulfill the duties of the Messiah, and so we know that they were not the Messiah. One cannot redefine what Messiah will be: those definitions are already set and codified in the Hebrew Bible and in the Mishnah and Gemarra, the books of codified Jewish law. So when someone who doesn't know Jewish texts or Jewish law presumes to tell us what we believe, what our laws are, or that Jesus (or anyone else) fulfilled those laws, we know that while their belief is sincere, their knowledge is lacking. They are misinformed. We don't hate people for being misinformed. We aren't offended by the fact that people are mistaken in what they think they know of our laws, our texts, and our traditions. But we do get a little put out when someone who doesn't know tries to tell us what we know. And most of us are too polite to actually stand and point out everything wrong with others' misinformed beliefs about Jewish texts, faith, law, and history, because we have a deeply-ingrained dislike of anyone who tries to destroy someone else's faith -- which is, in fact, what someone is trying to do when they try to make a Jew into a Christian. We know what it's like, and we're loathe to do it to others. We simply clam up, rather than use our ample knowledge to rob someone else of their own faith, even when we could easily do so. We have the good sense to just stop talking, most of us, even while someone else tries to goad and taunt us into a response. We say things like "We'll have to agree to disagree," and hope that the other person has the maturity to just drop it at that. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes we get harassed, beaten, or killed for simply saying, "Look, you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want, and let's just not talk about that."
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:41 pm
RoseRose I don't. I DO get upset when people say an interpretation of the Bible that places Jesus as the Messiah (which is the meaning of the Greek word Christ) as a Jewish interpretation, because they aren't. I get upset because they are making mistakes with the interpretation, and I tend not to get upset unless they persistently refuse to believe it's a Christian, rather than a Jewish interpretation. I'm sorry what...let me run by you what I believe you said...ahem, you get upset when people make a translation error with something that is Jewish and make it into something Christian.
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:00 pm
Divash As a Jew, I don't get upset when Christians refer to Jesus as Christ. That's what it means to be a Christian, that you believe that. However, when a non-Jew presumes to tell me what a Jewish belief or doctrine is (and gets it wrong), or when a person who can't read Hebrew tells me what the Hebrew Bible says (and gets it wrong), I feel they need to step back, go learn something, and then come back when they know what they're talking about. The Messiah is a person whom Jewish texts describe and define. We know what he is: a man descended from the physical, paternal lineage of King David. We know what he will do: draw all Jews back to the land of Israel (including those of the lost ten tribes), make Jews sovereign over the entirety of the Biblically-defined territory of Israel, establish the kingly line on the political throne of Israel, inspire in all Jews a desire to serve God by living the Biblical laws, cause the Temple to be rebuilt in its God-defined location, cause the cessation of hostilities against the Jewish people, and assist all non-Jews to observe the seven Noachide laws, thus establishing a format for a peaceful world. Quote: So whats wrong with that, isn't that the same as christianity...in a sense that you guys believe that he does all of this at once right, while the Bible states the second coming of Christ were he establishes all that stuff afterwards, and no I am not trying to preach to you, so don't take it that way just stating an opinion I've been thinking about for a while. We know that these things will happen during the lifetime of the Messiah (the annointed king of Davidic lineage), not afterward and not during a second lifetime. We know that these things have not yet been done. Though there have been a few individuals who did fulfill some of the qualifications for who could become the Messiah, they died before they could fulfill the duties of the Messiah, and so we know that they were not the Messiah. Quote: could you show me scripture about the first line of your above sentence.Also who are these people who have tried to fulfill the role of the messiah One cannot redefine what Messiah will be: those definitions are already set and codified in the Hebrew Bible and in the Mishnah and Gemarra, the books of codified Jewish law. So when someone who doesn't know Jewish texts or Jewish law presumes to tell us what we believe, what our laws are, or that Jesus (or anyone else) fulfilled those laws, we know that while their belief is sincere, their knowledge is lacking. They are misinformed. We don't hate people for being misinformed. We aren't offended by the fact that people are mistaken in what they think they know of our laws, our texts, and our traditions. Quote: I know their are over 600 laws in the Hebrew Bible...or rather that GOD gave to moses, during dueteronemy or something like that, but these other books or codes of conduct...whatever what are they, the mishnah and the gemarra? But we do get a little put out when someone who doesn't know tries to tell us what we know. And most of us are too polite to actually stand and point out everything wrong with others' misinformed beliefs about Jewish texts, faith, law, and history, because we have a deeply-ingrained dislike of anyone who tries to destroy someone else's faith -- which is, in fact, what someone is trying to do when they try to make a Jew into a Christian. We know what it's like, and we're loathe to do it to others. Quote: How so, I really don't believe...ehem some christians are trying to destroy your faith, I myself hate evangelism because what people believe to be true is well truth to them, I can't just walk up to somebody and say hey your wrong about believing this, well I can but something bad maybe come of it, the only time I evangelize is when I really like a person(not to destroy their faith) but because I believe what I believe; and I have a reason for believing it, and it's actually because I'm worried about that person's life after death if you know what I mean, but yea...question do you Jews believe in Heaven or that death is it. We simply clam up, rather than use our ample knowledge to rob someone else of their own faith, even when we could easily do so. We have the good sense to just stop talking, most of us, even while someone else tries to goad and taunt us into a response. We say things like "We'll have to agree to disagree," and hope that the other person has the maturity to just drop it at that. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes we get harassed, beaten, or killed for simply saying, "Look, you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want, and let's just not talk about that." Quote: same with christianity....well back in the day, and maybe in other countries, but not in america, American christians...some of them kinda well suck, by the way I've heard you guys have endured persecution from muslims but have you also endured it from christians.
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:07 pm
NewFoundLight RoseRose I don't. I DO get upset when people say an interpretation of the Bible that places Jesus as the Messiah (which is the meaning of the Greek word Christ) as a Jewish interpretation, because they aren't. I get upset because they are making mistakes with the interpretation, and I tend not to get upset unless they persistently refuse to believe it's a Christian, rather than a Jewish interpretation. I'm sorry what...let me run by you what I believe you said...ahem, you get upset when people make a translation error with something that is Jewish and make it into something Christian. No, it makes me upset when people claim a Christian belief is a Jewish belief. The Scriptures have been interpreted by both Jewish and Christian theologians, and it makes me upset when someone takes an obviously Christian interpretation, and claims it is a Jewish one. If it's out of ignorance, I try to educate. If it's out of an attempt to convert Jews to Christianity (some evangelical groups do this) I do get very upset. You believe the Old Testament says something different than a Jew does. Fine. Just don't say Jews see it how you do. (That you is a general you to Christians, not to any one person in particular).
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:31 pm
I think "Christos" just means "annointed." So I'm really puzzled as to how a Jewish person would be offended by people who called Jesus (the Romanized version of his actual name, Yeshua, by the way) the "Christ". As Divash said, I don't believe he was the Moshiach, but if even then I don't get upset if a Chrisitan calls Jesus the Messiah, after all, it's part of their belief system. It's all cool as long as I don't have to believe it too.
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:07 pm
RoseRose NewFoundLight RoseRose I don't. I DO get upset when people say an interpretation of the Bible that places Jesus as the Messiah (which is the meaning of the Greek word Christ) as a Jewish interpretation, because they aren't. I get upset because they are making mistakes with the interpretation, and I tend not to get upset unless they persistently refuse to believe it's a Christian, rather than a Jewish interpretation. I'm sorry what...let me run by you what I believe you said...ahem, you get upset when people make a translation error with something that is Jewish and make it into something Christian. No, it makes me upset when people claim a Christian belief is a Jewish belief. The Scriptures have been interpreted by both Jewish and Christian theologians, and it makes me upset when someone takes an obviously Christian interpretation, and claims it is a Jewish one. If it's out of ignorance, I try to educate. If it's out of an attempt to convert Jews to Christianity (some evangelical groups do this) I do get very upset. You believe the Old Testament says something different than a Jew does. Fine. Just don't say Jews see it how you do. (That you is a general you to Christians, not to any one person in particular). otay, can you give me an example of what a christian might say, and then what you would say, or an educated Jew.
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:11 pm
roothands I think "Christos" just means "annointed." So I'm really puzzled as to how a Jewish person would be offended by people who called Jesus (the Romanized version of his actual name, Yeshua, by the way) the "Christ". As Divash said, I don't believe he was the Moshiach, but if even then I don't get upset if a Chrisitan calls Jesus the Messiah, after all, it's part of their belief system. It's all cool as long as I don't have to believe it too. otay, why don't you believe, he is the Christ?
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:41 pm
NewFoundLight RoseRose NewFoundLight RoseRose I don't. I DO get upset when people say an interpretation of the Bible that places Jesus as the Messiah (which is the meaning of the Greek word Christ) as a Jewish interpretation, because they aren't. I get upset because they are making mistakes with the interpretation, and I tend not to get upset unless they persistently refuse to believe it's a Christian, rather than a Jewish interpretation. I'm sorry what...let me run by you what I believe you said...ahem, you get upset when people make a translation error with something that is Jewish and make it into something Christian. No, it makes me upset when people claim a Christian belief is a Jewish belief. The Scriptures have been interpreted by both Jewish and Christian theologians, and it makes me upset when someone takes an obviously Christian interpretation, and claims it is a Jewish one. If it's out of ignorance, I try to educate. If it's out of an attempt to convert Jews to Christianity (some evangelical groups do this) I do get very upset. You believe the Old Testament says something different than a Jew does. Fine. Just don't say Jews see it how you do. (That you is a general you to Christians, not to any one person in particular). otay, can you give me an example of what a christian might say, and then what you would say, or an educated Jew. Christian: "Jews believe that G-d is a Trinity!" Educated Jew: "No, in Judaism, G-d is one being, as evidenced by the line in Deuteronomy, 'Hear O Israel, the Lord is your G-d, the Lord is One'"
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:01 am
RoseRose Christian: "Jews believe that G-d is a Trinity!" Educated Jew: "No, in Judaism, G-d is one being, as evidenced by the line in Deuteronomy, 'Hear O Israel, the Lord is your G-d, the Lord is One'" Is that called Shema? I think I saw that in a thread a little while back...
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:27 pm
Quinn+hisQuill RoseRose Christian: "Jews believe that G-d is a Trinity!" Educated Jew: "No, in Judaism, G-d is one being, as evidenced by the line in Deuteronomy, 'Hear O Israel, the Lord is your G-d, the Lord is One'" Is that called Shema? I think I saw that in a thread a little while back... Yes. The Shema is said in morning and evening prayers, and is this quote from Deuteronomy (at least, that's the first line).
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:22 am
RoseRose Yes. The Shema is said in morning and evening prayers, and is this quote from Deuteronomy (at least, that's the first line). Ah, thanks.
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:41 pm
RoseRose NewFoundLight RoseRose NewFoundLight RoseRose I don't. I DO get upset when people say an interpretation of the Bible that places Jesus as the Messiah (which is the meaning of the Greek word Christ) as a Jewish interpretation, because they aren't. I get upset because they are making mistakes with the interpretation, and I tend not to get upset unless they persistently refuse to believe it's a Christian, rather than a Jewish interpretation. I'm sorry what...let me run by you what I believe you said...ahem, you get upset when people make a translation error with something that is Jewish and make it into something Christian. No, it makes me upset when people claim a Christian belief is a Jewish belief. The Scriptures have been interpreted by both Jewish and Christian theologians, and it makes me upset when someone takes an obviously Christian interpretation, and claims it is a Jewish one. If it's out of ignorance, I try to educate. If it's out of an attempt to convert Jews to Christianity (some evangelical groups do this) I do get very upset. You believe the Old Testament says something different than a Jew does. Fine. Just don't say Jews see it how you do. (That you is a general you to Christians, not to any one person in particular). otay, can you give me an example of what a christian might say, and then what you would say, or an educated Jew. Christian: "Jews believe that G-d is a Trinity!" Quote: what the heck come on, even I know thats false. Educated Jew: "No, in Judaism, G-d is one being, as evidenced by the line in Deuteronomy, 'Hear O Israel, the Lord is your G-d, the Lord is One Quote: oh i teh, but tell me what if a christian responded by saying quoting mark or whatever it was and said or actually John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.", what would you do? and again still not preaching, so don't worry about it.
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:42 pm
RoseRose Quinn+hisQuill RoseRose Christian: "Jews believe that G-d is a Trinity!" Educated Jew: "No, in Judaism, G-d is one being, as evidenced by the line in Deuteronomy, 'Hear O Israel, the Lord is your G-d, the Lord is One'" Is that called Shema? I think I saw that in a thread a little while back... Yes. The Shema is said in morning and evening prayers, and is this quote from Deuteronomy (at least, that's the first line). SHEMA!?!?!? explain further please?.....dan it, I want some StarBucks...again.
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