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Tags: george r. r. martin, ice and fire, game of thrones 

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Loras Tyrell/Renly Baratheon Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]

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anth001
Crew

Learned Bibliophile

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:08 pm


Toward the end of a storm of swords, an idea that had been forming in the back of my head completed.
For lack of a better term i believe loras was renly's "boy toy" O_o
I may be wrong as there was no formal proof of this.
But i believe there where several under tones that hinted at it during the novels.
My suspicions as they are where founded upon these notes.
In a game of throne little finger remarked to ned stark, that renly spends more on clothes then half the women at court.
Renly laughed at that and confirmed it.
Then going into a clash of kings we saw several other hints.
Renly had established a rainbow guard dressing his knights in bright colors and was armoring himself in armored jewelry basically.
When he went to parlay with stannis he offered him a peach instead of a battle, this may have just been arrogance but it seemed off to me.
And it was made known that he had yet to bed his bride.
Another hint was loras's reaction at his murder flying into a rage and killing two of his sworn brothers.
His reaction seemed far more then would be average for a knight's fury at the fall of his king.
The final piece of the puzzle to this fell into place in my mind during a storm of swords.
When jamie was talking to loras about renly's murder and brienne.
Loras said that he had just been with him the night before then he stopped and stammered out that they had been praying together.
The way i took this scene made it seem that praying had meant something far more then it's wording.
And i believe there was a last overt hint during a feast for crows.
From the witness's against margaery, that attested that during renly's bedding.
He did not seem to drunk to perform and was "standing" at attention when they undressed him.
The mention of note here is that loras carried his sister into the bedroom alone.
From this i believe it was loras bedded instead of his sister.
And seeing as the two siblings look so much alike i doubt anyone who looked in would have noticed which was being bedded at a glance.

Now from those conclusions, i'm thinking that the new point of view character yet to be announced for a dance with dragons will be loras tyrell.
Most likely starting from either his charge into dragonstone or with the the aftermath or it and his struggle to recover.
This would allow the under tones of his character to be defined and perhaps leave a decent explanation as to what there really was between him and renly.

Though the undisclosed character could just as likely be melisandre.
As this info came from the wiki on the book.

Quote:
In a progress update on his website, dated January 1, 2008, Martin said he would add an additional point-of-view, which would be a character featured in the first series of Dark Sword Miniatures who had never been a point-of-view before. The three characters that meet these criteria are Sandor Clegane, Melisandre of Asshai, and Loras Tyrell. Martin later ruled out Sandor.

Now then the question would be, does anyone else have any opinions or insights about this matter?  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:29 pm


Oh dear god! I would have never thought of that if you hadn't mentioned it! That was very good observation, that's probably why Loras did not want to marry and joined the Kings Guard. Oh his poor sister! He will probably come out if she is going to be killed in the next book.

Little Love Love


Little Love Love

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:35 pm


I wonder if Margaery Tyrell watched her brother do it with Renly... *shivers at the thought*
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:03 am


Well unless she slipped out in loras's armor during the bedding she probably did watch it.
And knowing how martin loves to disturb the reader's she may have even been sitting on the bed during -_-
Nice observation though, loras coming out at margaery's trial would get rid of the renly based accusations.
So that may well happen.
 

anth001
Crew

Learned Bibliophile


Soldat von Sonne
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:56 pm


User ImageUser Image




Now that you mention it, this does seem to be a pretty reasonable explanation of our Knight of Flowers.
But I do wonder who exactly had taken Margaery's maidenhead. I mean,
in AFFC, it is confirmed that she was not at all a virgin,
but I don't believe that anyone Cersi sent after her had
taken it.
Do you think Renly had taken both brother and sister that night?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:07 pm


I remember Jaime seeing Loras and recalling what he was like as a younger man. Which was pretty much the same as Loras. And he also wondered if the twins were as alike as the Lannister pair.

Ninth Pariah


anth001
Crew

Learned Bibliophile

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:55 pm


Well as to margaery's maidenhead.
That could easily have been as cersei remarked, a deal of highborn girls tend to lose it to horseback riding.
Or loras could be similar to jaime in more way's then one.
Though seeing as all of margaery's cousins had broken maidenheads as well, the horses could be unlikely.
And it is doubtful that anyone cersei sent was sleeping with them all, in my opinion.
But anything could have happened at highgarden or during there time with renly's former army.
Neither of those times ever went into detail for margaery or her cousins.
Seeing as a dance with dragons will mostly focus on danny and the wall.
We might not learn anymore about, this particular plot line until the book after.
And the winds of winter could take several years to be published like a dance with dragons did -_-
I'm hoping that won't happen and that we will at least get a bit more into this plot line, by having loras as the new pov character instead of melisandre.
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:20 pm


Well I hope that Dance with Dragons might have some glimpse into the Knight of Flowers! I'm dying to know what really happened to his sister and his cousins, there's just so many things that could have happened concerning their maidenhood. But I would think Martin did have both brother and sister in the same bed that night xd Do you think Martin will finish this series soon?

Little Love Love


The Diamond God

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:18 pm


Loras is Renly's "boy toy."

Tower of the Hand is defenatly one of the better, if not the best, website for SOIAF discussions that I've seen.
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:32 pm


Thank you Drisil for directing us to the Tower of the Hand forum! Cool website

Little Love Love


anth001
Crew

Learned Bibliophile

PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:11 am


Thanks drizil, that was an interesting site for a song of ice and fire.
And it proved i was right in my assumptions about loras and renly
stare  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:14 am


I love those two. Too bad one's dead his the other is horribly burned. Y.Y

It's my pleasure. I'm sure there's other website's out there, but TOH is my favorite.
 

The Diamond God


Zeke Lanistter

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:54 am


Ugh, Rainbow Guard! How in Hell did I miss that clue?! Good theory, though. Useless, but fun xD
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:31 pm


I also believe that theory that Ser Loras and Renly were lovers. There are many clues given throughout the books. The Rainbow Guard being one of them.

Other ones that I can think of (of the top of my head, sorry if they aren't 100% accurate):

(SPOLERS AHEAD if you haven't read all 4 books):


When Lady Catelyn is visiting Renly and his host, on the night before the battle with Stannis, Renly asks Loras to come with him and "pray." in an knowing fashion. Later, when Jaime is questioning Loras in the White Tower, he says he was "uh..helping Renly pray."

When Loras is acting all cocky, Jamie snaps at him, "or I'll find somewhere to stick my sword where Renly never did!" Could be innuendo.

It would certainy explain why Loras was so distraught over Renly's death that he killed 2 members of the Rainbow Guard, and wanted to kill Brienne

When Tyrion is talking to Ser Loras in Kings' Landing about love, Loras says something like "When the sun sets on your true love, there is nothing else," implying that Renly, now dead, was the true love of his life.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Loras in the next book. There are rumors he may be a viewpoint in the next book, but based on his injuries, I don't know if that's a possibility.

paladinrising


Zeke Lanistter

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:53 am


I doubt he dies. I think hes the new view, simply because we have Stannis, Melisandres Lapdog, and dont NEED her view. Whereas, as it stands, We need someone in King's Landing, now that Cersei is gone. Some character needs to tell us whats going on outside the cell.
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