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 Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:07 pm
All right! It has indeed been a while since I've been here. So, hot on the plate for the US Supreme Court is Michael Newdow's complaints on "Under God". Instituted by the Eisenhower admininstration in 1954, the phrase "Under God" was meant to bring fear into the "God-less Communists". It was natural to think that they would fear a united nation, especially united under a God, right? Unfortunately, that was never, and still isn't, true. Also, Mr. Newdow is using St. Thomas Aquinas's theory on the existence of God. If one attempts to deny the existence of a god, they have created an image of a god to deny, thus proving there is a god. Newdow believes that hearing the name of God creates this image talked of by Aquinas.
So: Yea or nay?
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:25 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:48 pm
What is this whole aggressive thing against christmas anyways? I hadn't heard about it before Bull O'Really brought it up and I saw it on the Daily Show and then on Steve what'shisface's show.
Nobody's attacking christmas any more than other religions are being offensed.
Ever see Perfect World? Kevin Kostner? You know that jehova's witness family?
Poor offended family.
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:49 pm
DarthNader Frankly, I dont see the issue. Under god isnt supposed to be there, period. same thing with "in god we trust", imposed by Lincoln in one of his less lucid periods ( suspension of habeas corpus, his wrath against the press, etc) to appease freaks that wanted him to change the constitution and declaration to say the US is a christian nation. There's a reason he refused, y'know. As for all this war on christmas crap: its not us secular people who are removing christmas from the stores, its the giant, republican donating stores themselves in a marketing move. No one has sued any private institution for anything christmas related because they cant. so, to all of you on the front of the OMGZORZ WAR ON CHRISTMAS brigades: shut the ******** up. If you really want wal mart and walgreens to put "merry christmas" back up, then why doesn't O'whiney organize a boycott, I thought he got off on that. Oh, wait, I forgot, its because these companies he so berates all Donate toRepublicans. How surprising
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:58 pm
Tuggerfub Drum What is this whole aggressive thing against christmas anyways? I hadn't heard about it before Bull O'Really brought it up and I saw it on the Daily Show and then on Steve what'shisface's show. Nobody's attacking christmas any more than other religions are being offensed. Ever see Perfect World? Kevin Kostner? You know that jehova's witness family? Poor offended family. No, that is so wrong, I mean how often do you hear on the news that we need to ban the dradel song from the jews? Exactly you don't hear it, the ration of christian bashing to ALL other religeons togather doesn't even come close. And by bull, you mean the liberal media, now you see from the republicans side, what sh*t comes out of your mouths.
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:01 pm
The phrase "holiday tree" simply doesn't work for me. However, the OP is entirely correct. "Under God" was added to the Pledge in 1954, to differentiate between the "Christian" United States and the "Godless Communists" in Moscow. "In God We Trust" was not an official motto of the United States until 1956, and even th' "Star-Spangled Banner," from whence that phrase was derived, was not the national anthem until 1933. (Personally, I prefer "America the Beautiful." More lyrical, less militaristic.) Drewser No, that is so wrong, I mean how often do you hear on the news that we need to ban the dradel song from the jews? How often do you hear the Dreidel Song sung by groups on the street? I never have. Y'can't play Dreidel that way. DarthNader No one has sued any private institution for anything christmas related because they cant. BUT HAPPY HOLIDAYS WAS PUSHED BY THE ANTI-CHRISTIAN ACLU TO CONVERT CHRISTMAS SHOPPERS TO ATHEISM Drewser Is it not taking away Christmas cheer? Is it? I hadn't heard. Wasn't aware that it was the government's duty to uphold Christmas cheer, either. I mean, it's a vast and stuffy bureaucracy. Quote: Not only that, if we ban the holiday songs, don't we upset the people who do sing? they banned? Or is wassailing while singing them banned? If th' latter, people need to suck it up. I find caroling annoying, and I bet that the majority agree. Unless you're doing it at the old folks' home, they love visitors. Quote: My final question now is, what has America really turned into? Is it not supposed to be a world of free believe not to be stepped on by others? That sounds like an excuse for institutionalized ignorance, to me. No, America is supposed to be a country where the rights of every human being under its jurisdiction are respected. If the right to sing worship songs at the holidays is one of those rights for you, then it is a right for everyone. If it is not a right for everyone, then it is not a right for you. Whoops.
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:07 pm
3 things to that, for the first quote, what about freedom of speach? Second if you don't care about christmas, why are you bothering to ban what others like to do? Instituionalizing Ignorance AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA, trying to ban something you don't like, that sounds more ignorant.
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:41 pm
I personally do not understand why the religions waited until now to get offended by Christmas. To me, Christmas no longer means the birth of Christ. It has become a commercialized symbol of gift-getting, a fat man, and day-after sales. If we called it Muhhamedmas, it would still be gift-getting, a fat man, and day-after sales. So what's the point of pissing your pants over it now? I mean, we used to have X-mas for those offended people, which I found funny... X actually stood for Xristos, Greek for Christ... At any rate. It isn't Christians' faults that Christmas has become such a huge commercialized holiday. I mean, half the stuff done at Christmas comes from pagan rituals anyways. Mistletoe? A Druid ritual. The date of Christmas is actually a pagan sun-worshipping holiday.
People need to stop whining about details and ignore some things. Seriously. That's why I'm indifferent to the Under God thing. Even if it said Under Satan, I would know it wasn't true, so who cares? I don't believe it, so I'm not gonna whine. In fact, I would find great humor in children of Conservative Christian mindlessly saying that they were under Satan. The looks on the parents' faces would be priceless.
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:07 pm
Under God shouldn't be in the pledge of allegience because the one who created it didn't even want it in there. I don't think ever should have changed it and I think the debate is really stupid. Not a lot of people even know what the real debate should be about. It's mostly atheism v religioius people. Most of the debate is should we have God in this or not. Obviously if the religious people only know it's taking out God they're going to be against it. A lot of people think it was originally there so no crap they're going to say we should keep it there.
I think it should be illegal to have nativity scenes and things like that in public. However, I think it gets to the point of almost outrageous standards. Come on, everyone (Everyone), let's be real for a second here. Does Christmas honestly mean "Thank God for Chrstianity" or is it about the season of giving and the season of taking. Is it not about capital and all of that? I kind of have a problem with people taking away something that is supposed to be good. It's the one day that people forget about all their differences and come together and actually try to be good. Sure, there's things that are going to go down but that's inevitable.
I think taking out Jesus and God and things like that should be based on the community when it comes to a nativity scene. But if it's things like "In God we trust" for our money and our Pledge of Allegience I think we should make it something else because it establishes a national religion.
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:59 am
first off, it has noything else to do with other holidays so why call it a holiday tree? it is a symbol exclusive to christmas. is the menorah(sp) a holiday candle holder? a yamaka(sp) a holiday hat? how about we make everything related to kwanza generic by saying holiday? can you imagine ythe uproar in black communities then? "the white man taking away something else that is exclusive to them" and all the other BS would flow like the nile river!
unless you are also willing to sacrifice the minority religions, get off my back and have a merry CHRISTMAS! if you don't like it, ignore it or make yourself into a hermit every december cuz i really don't care.
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AmmonSuperCombo Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:43 pm
AmmonSuperCombo unless you are also willing to sacrifice the minority religions sounds like a fantastic Idea. I still fail to see the problem. A few private entities have made a business decision, and you wackos are all over it.
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:57 pm
I, personally, am not a religious man. However, I still believe that this is one of the most idiotic arguments I've ever seen. What I don't understand, is whay do people even bother obsessing over something like this? If you don't like it, don't say it! It's not like you have to. Hell, you don't even have to say the pledge itself if you don't want to, I suppose.
There are hundreds of more important issues that need worked out NOW before they get any worse, yet our political leaders are wasting our time and money nit-picking over something like this... It just seems foolish and wastful to me.
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:35 am
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:29 am
You know what its summer in australia and i believe in that so you cant say Happy Winter to me. Its your choice to say it or not and it doesnt specify a certain religion or make you believe in one.
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