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 Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:23 pm
My first thread! domokun
Ok so I have been thinking lots lately about religion and feminism. Particularly about abortion which i think is very important in feminism becuz it is about our bodies and our rights to our bodies.
Now I think abortion is not very nice but sometimes life is not very nice!! And it is not nice for a puffy old man to try and tell me what to do stare
Now I am Muslim so I don't know very well the Christian views on this but I can present Muslim views on it and my views on it.
Islam is clearly in favor of abortion if the mother's life is in trouble. This is very good. I do not think anyone but the mother has a right to make that decision. It is her life, and how would anyone like to see sumone else telling them they had to risk their life for something? That would be completely unreasonable
Another reason I think abortion should be allowed is because if the baby is deformed. There are diseases babies can have that are very painful! I don't think it is good to bring such a baby into the world.
We know that about half of miscarriages happen because of some defect in the baby. If God wanted defective babies, he would not send so many miscarriages! And what is a miscarriage but an abortion done by God? (Assuming you believe in God.)
Mohammad said, "By him in whose Hand is my life, the miscarried fetus will drag his mother towards the paradise, with his navel string if she had shown the patience for the sake of reward from Allah." So an aborted fetus will go straight to heaven, and make it easier for its mother to go there, too. Because the fetus is innocent, and the mother is connected to it.
2 other things: Islam is more against abortion when the fetus is more developed, that is, mroe like a person. So I think this means that abortion is okay in the begining of the pregnancy for whatever reasons
Also Islam is against abortion in the case of rape. I think this is very bad. I think religion should stay out of people's lives like that and it's not their business. No imam was ever raped!! But then many Muslim men are still very mean to Muslim women. stare
So what do you think? How does your religion handle these issues? Do you think your leaders are right or should they but out?
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:24 pm
Oooooo i forgot Hindus and budists on my poll... sorry! sweatdrop sweatdrop
domokun domokun
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:39 pm
Is there any information as to why abortion is frowned upon in rape cases?
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Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:11 pm
Beverly Kills Is there any information as to why abortion is frowned upon in rape cases? it is seen as punishing a baby, who didn't do anything, for something someone else did. Islam in general frowns on abortion without 'a good cause'. I don't think any imam has ever had to live with the horrible thought of carrying they're rapist's baby, so i don't think they're really educated to speak on it. I think it is a hard case and I wouldn't want to make that decision 4 anyone else. Maybe i would keep it but i don't know becuz I've never been there.
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Posted: Sat May 06, 2006 8:14 pm
There has been no society where the status of women were fully equal to that of men. Every single religion, in my view, has supported the subjugation of women.
This isn't to say that religion= bad, but
religion belongs more in the realm of faith, rather than logic/reason. In other words, I would not count on religion to debate an issue that is legislated on other people's lives other than your own. There's just too much wiggle room for interpreting a religion.
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Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 12:07 am
Grip of Death There has been no society where the status of women were fully equal to that of men. Every single religion, in my view, has supported the subjugation of women. This isn't to say that religion= bad, but religion belongs more in the realm of faith, rather than logic/reason. In other words, I would not count on religion to debate an issue that is legislated on other people's lives other than your own. There's just too much wiggle room for interpreting a religion. Sum of the modern pagan religions, and religions like Quakers and Unitarians, seem very nice to women. but you must remember, religions are very old things. They take time to change. But they *do* change. I am not talking about legality. Laws are not the issue. but many people believe in religion, and religion is very important to them, whether it's a good religion or not. So it is important to discuss these issues through all of the ways they impact women. It is no good for abortion to be legal if no one ever gets one bcuz they are always told they will burn in hell if htey do! Now i think there are ways for religiouns to be reformed to be better. all things change, after all. And so long as pepple are religious, we should work to have the best religions possible.
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Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 3:43 pm
Feminism, or rather my belief in gender equality, is one of the reasons why I started practicing Wicca. I didn't like how the Bible said that feminism was sinful.
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Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:32 pm
Pink Snow Blossom Feminism, or rather my belief in gender equality, is one of the reasons why I started practicing Wicca. I didn't like how the Bible said that feminism was sinful. Well,the Bible isn't very accurate, anyway... just look at genisis razz It is very interesting how som religions these days are making more room for wmen. For example I think christian churches that let women be priests are doing a good job. I do not think that God is actually male. I mean, we are male and female so we can reproduce and have bebbies. Y should god be male? Why would god make bebbies? where then is the female god for God to have sex with? but Islam teaches only one God, sot hat God can't be male! But ofcourse men want to assert how much better they are than women, so they turn god into a man. this is of course what i believe razz I am glad you've found ur path. smile
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Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:44 am
Oh yeah Christianity suxxors with their jebbus and gawd!
Sorry, I just get really irritated when people make claims against a religion they obviously don't understand.
Christianty talks about women honoring their husbands and husbands honoring their wives, but somehow only the first part is ever mentioned because OMG Christianity hates women.
Let's actually take a look at biblical women. They were strong', very opinionated women who got things done. The main theme of biblical womanhood is women who are not ashamed to stand up for themselves or their families. The women in the bible cause all sorts of things to happen, from Rachel to Deberoah.
They are all strong women, and their femininity is celebrated along side their courage and wisdom. Women are celebrated. Yet, Christians hate women and the bible is misogynistic and bigotted.
Oh and "just look at genisis" do you have any knowledge of biblical theory? I doubt it considering you go for the comedy "genisis has two creation stories lol they can't BOTH be right!"
And also please show me where the bible says "feminism is sinful".
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Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 7:44 pm
Lil_Sphinx Sum of the modern pagan religions, and religions like Quakers and Unitarians, seem very nice to women. but you must remember, religions are very old things. They take time to change. But they *do* change. I am not talking about legality. Laws are not the issue. but many people believe in religion, and religion is very important to them, whether it's a good religion or not. So it is important to discuss these issues through all of the ways they impact women. It is no good for abortion to be legal if no one ever gets one bcuz they are always told they will burn in hell if htey do! Now i think there are ways for religiouns to be reformed to be better. all things change, after all. And so long as pepple are religious, we should work to have the best religions possible. The status of women is variable in differeing societies, it's noted. you have come up with a very adept observation about the nature of religions. Religion has been resistant to change, but this doesn't mean that change is impossible because religion also happens to be quite adaptable. Afterall, religion still has meaning to people in this day and age. You bring up a very good point that it's kinda redundant to have abortion rights when women are shocked and manipulated with their religion from ever forming their own views and their own rights. But using religion to manipulate others doesn't lead to progress or advance our pursuit of "truth"... It's a shame that people take the seperation of church and state and the freedoms it leads to for granted. "Seperation of church and State" sounds so "evil" when you're a christian (who is the majority religion in the 'States), but what if I wanted to learn about Islam, or Judaism, or Buddhism, or Taoism, or see how the Native American religions were applicable in my own life? Or just plain don't care/don't want to? I shouldn't get sacked for what is an honest, but socially-deviant attempt to pursue "truth".
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Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:01 pm
Broorel Oh yeah Christianity suxxors with their jebbus and gawd! Sorry, I just get really irritated when people make claims against a religion they obviously don't understand. Christianty talks about women honoring their husbands and husbands honoring their wives, but somehow only the first part is ever mentioned because OMG Christianity hates women. Let's actually take a look at biblical women. They were strong', very opinionated women who got things done. The main theme of biblical womanhood is women who are not ashamed to stand up for themselves or their families. The women in the bible cause all sorts of things to happen, from Rachel to Deberoah. They are all strong women, and their femininity is celebrated along side their courage and wisdom. Women are celebrated. Yet, Christians hate women and the bible is misogynistic and bigotted. Oh and "just look at genisis" do you have any knowledge of biblical theory? I doubt it considering you go for the comedy "genisis has two creation stories lol they can't BOTH be right!" And also please show me where the bible says "feminism is sinful". You are right, Christianity CAN be interpreted to allow for the support of feminism. However, a lot of religious works can fall under a number of interpretations, not just one. And unfortunately, the trend of fundamentalism, with it's "literalist" interpretation of the bible, do not support the equality of women. Rather, the closest fundamentalists can come up with to "trick" women into adhering to their misogynist agenda is that the bible's basic stance is women are a "complimentary" nature to men. the buzzword "complimentary" is designed to sound like "equality", but it's not. It's a really unfortunate situation for Christian feminists to challenge. with that said, I don't neccessarily agree that every female character in the text is portrayed as a strong, positive female influence. This isn't the whole story, however. Literary commentary, plus considering their historical significance shed new hopeful and positive light on the female characters. Also, this isn't to say that the other religions have had a number of astounding female influences... so Christianity wouldn't be the only religion in question to the status of women.
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Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 7:54 am
There are plenty of male characters who are not portrayed as "strong" either. In fact strong women are shown in relation to weak men numerous times. Most of these times the actions of the women change the course of history for the better and allow for prophecy to come into predition.
The fact that it is "just an interpretation" is ludicris. Yes we can argue about what the meaning of the word "is" is, but we can all pretty much agree on a majority of biblical writings. Yes, there is controversy, but not enough to say "well the story of Esther is obviously sexist!".
The only people who come up with such assertions are the ones who read half passages or quarter passages or perhaps just one line without looking into context at all. Sadly, some people in positions of Christian power do just this, but they can hardly be said to "represent Christianity".
Sadly, people outside the faith often only see these people and then assume that they are giving accurate subtext for their message.
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:15 am
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:21 am
Broorel There are plenty of male characters who are not portrayed as "strong" either. None of them condmened the entire human race. Quote: In fact strong women are shown in relation to weak men numerous times. Most of these times the actions of the women change the course of history for the better and allow for prophecy to come into predition. strong men are much more common than strong women. Quote: The only people who come up with such assertions are the ones who read half passages or quarter passages or perhaps just one line without looking into context at all. Sadly, some people in positions of Christian power do just this, but they can hardly be said to "represent Christianity". unfortunately, tho, they are Christians, so their words and thoughts become part of what Christianity means. Just like when pepple in Iran force women to wear those black bags from head to toe... stare It is not submission if you are forced to do it! Islam says that we should be modest, both men and women, not that we should force women to wear bags over their heads. but this is still Islam! It is unfortunate, but it is true. So rather than argue abotu what this book or that book says, we shud try to find new ways to improve things for pepple.
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:34 am
Grip of Death It's a shame that people take the seperation of church and state and the freedoms it leads to for granted. "Seperation of church and State" sounds so "evil" when you're a christian (who is the majority religion in the 'States), but what if I wanted to learn about Islam, or Judaism, or Buddhism, or Taoism, or see how the Native American religions were applicable in my own life? Or just plain don't care/don't want to? I shouldn't get sacked for what is an honest, but socially-deviant attempt to pursue "truth". thank you for all of your kind words! heart i think its sad how many Americans are tryint to abandon separation of church and State. I mean, I have seen places with no such thing, and you would not want to live there!! Just for example like I already said, if a woman is raped in Pakistan, she can be put in jail for it. gonk Because if she can't prove that he raped her, then obviously it must have been consensual sex so it was fornication and she has to go to jail. sad Or Saudi Arabia, I have never been to saudi but there women are absically just property, they can't even go outside without an escort or sum guy to take care of them. U know you'd think we'd have gotten rid of slavery by now, but I guess not! And how can u be pious in a country like that? If u are required to cover your head or u'll get thrown in jail, then u are not doing it for God!! It is now for men, not god. stressed true submission must be voluntary. VOLUNTARY!!!!!! Of course, as a non-christian livinghere in America it is very nice 2 b able to worship how i please. biggrin We are very happy for that! And now these idiots want to go and make our grate country into some thing like Pakistan! That is just wrong. They are just bullies......
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